| Notes |
- http://hydefamilyhistory.com/hyde-of-scotland/
Hyde Family in Scotland
HYDE FAMILY CONNECTIONS IN SCOTLAND
In the spring of 2010, Jamie Hyde (son of Eric Hyde; grandson of Walter Court Hyde) sent me some intriguing information about a possible connection to the Hyde family in Scotland. The story began with a man called John Hyde Christie (1836-1926) who was well known in Scotland as the General Manager of a company called The United Turkey Red Co. Ltd. In his time, it was the largest firm engaged in the business of bleaching, finishing, dyeing, and printing in Scotland.
John Hyde Christie was a son of William Henry McLean Christie and his wife, Helen Hyde (born ~1810). J.H. Christie was married to Jessie Fulton (1842- ) and they had five children: Henry William Christie (1874- ), Jane Christie (1875- ), John Fulton Christie (1878- ), George James Hyde Christie (1879- ) and Helen Hyde Christie (II) (1883- ). Although no records have been found to connect Helen Hyde to James Hyde’s family, Jamie noted that his father (Eric J.W. Hyde) and grandfather (Walter Court Hyde) had visited George J. H. Christie’s home, “Ross Priory” in Dunbartonshire, Scotland, during the Second World War (George was a decorated First World War veteran – he had been awarded the D.S.O.). Jamie also has a 1960 Christmas card from “George & Jane” with the Ross Priory address on it. Eric Hyde recalled his visit to Ross Priory and confirmed that there was a family connection to the Christies, but he did not know the details.
So, we are left with the understanding that there is a connection between the Christie and Hyde families, but the question of course is what exactly is the connection? We can only speculate that Helen could have been a sister of James Hyde. She was born in Glasgow in 1810, which is close to James’ birth in 1814.
Some further investigation revealed that according to the 1861 Scotland census, a woman called Rachel Hyde was living with the family of Helen (Hyde) Christie, in Glasgow. At that time she was 74 years old, and was identified as “Grandmother”. In 1861, Helen would have been 51 years oldd if the speculation above were correct, then Rachel would be James’ mother.
Further research indicated that Rachel had been born in Ireland, and had been married to Richard Hyde on the 7th June 1807 in Barony, Renfrewshire, Scotland (interestingly, it appears that Rachel’s maiden name was also Hyde).
Now, if Rachel was James’ mother, then this information about her husband Richard conflicts with some information that Aunt Isobel left us with: Isobel mentioned in her interview with Laurie that James’ father was Robert Hyde… Was Isobel mistaken? That would seem unlikely because she had a remarkable memory for facts. Nevertheless, it does seem significant to me that James named his first son Richard: As Isobel said herself, it was customary at that time to name sons and daughters after their parents and grandparents. James did not give the name Robert to any of his own children – – nor did Helen (John gave the name Robert to his second son, and James’ eldest son, Richard, named his youngest son Robert John Manly). James and Helen both gave the name Helen to one of their own daughters, and Helen and John each gave the name Rachel to one of their own daughters.
Further research into the Hyde & Christie families in Scotland has turned up a few other bits of interesting information that are worth noting:
We begin with this reference – http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2971157 – which relates to Christie Park, and includes this reference to J.H. Christie’s obituary: “John Hyde Christie was first employed by his cousin’s firm, Hay & Hyde at Port Dundas“.
According to the Glasgow Post Office Directory 1853-54, ‘Hay & Hyde’ was a firm of ‘Silk Throwsters and Patent Silk Spinners, Sawmillfield, Port Dundas’. The same directory also has a listing for “John Hyde of Hay & Hyde, 275 St. Georges Road”. In 1853-54, John Hyde Christie would have been about 18, and likely at his first job. This indicates to me that John Hyde (of Hay & Hyde) is very likely the “cousin” referred to above, and he must have been related via J.H. Christie’s mother, Helen Hyde. (At this point it is also worth taking note of another fact in the Post Office Directory: a “Mrs. Hyde, Grocer”, was living and/or working next door, at 277 St. Georges Road. In the 1861 Scotland census, Rachel Hyde was described as “Retired Grocer”).
According to the 1851 Scotland Census, Massachusetts ry Hyde, 33 years old, lived at 275 St. Georges Road (John Hyde’s location in the 1853 GPO directory, above) with her children Mary (aged 11), Robert (8), Rachel (6) and John (3). She is listed as “Wife”. There is no mention of John Hyde, but Mary is not listed as a widow (It could well be that Census-takers only recorded who was home when they called, to prevent double-counting).
According to the 1861 Scotland Census (ten years later), John Hyde, 53 years old and Mary Hyde 43 years old, live at 29 Scotia Street with their children Mary W. (aged 21), James (aged 30 – a typo, I’m sure this should have been 20), Robert M. (18), Rachel N. (16), Melville (9), William W. (7) and John G.B. (2). John’s occupation is listed as “Silk Garn Agent”. Mary’s birthplace is listed as “Cupar, fifeshire” in both 1851 & 1861 censuses. Other info is consistent as well, including the names and ages of children Mary, Robert and Rachel (maybe young John died between 1851 and 1861). I can’t explain why the son James was not listed in the 1851 Census (he would have been 10), but the rest of the info is very consistent, though.
Now I am going to try to relate some of what I know about these various family members in the years that followed, and how certain information seems to connect with what we know about the family of James Hyde & Agnes Clark:
In the 1861 Scotland Census (as above), James Hyde (aged 20) and his brother Robert M. (18), were both described as Post Office Clerks. They are the sons of John and Mary Hyde, and are still living at home in Glasgow.
In the 1871 England census, James W. Hyde (aged 30) and Robert M. Hyde (aged 28), who were both born in Paisley, Scotland, are lodgers at an address in London, and are described as clerks at the General Post Office in London.
In the 1881 Scotland census, James Hyde (aged 41), born in Paisley, Scotttland, is described as a Superintendent at the Edinburgh Post Office.
The same information is consistent in the 1891 and 1901 Scotland censuses. In the 1901 census, James W. Hyde is described as the Controller of the Edinburgh Post Office.
The Controller of the Edinburgh post office, at that time, was James Wilson Hyde: I know this for several reasons, including the fact that he was the author of several books about the history of the Royal Mail, including: “The Royal Mail, it’s Curiosities & Romance” and “A Hundred Yettars by Post“.
So, what is the significance of all this??!! It is this: All of this demonstrates that James Wilson Hyde is almost certainly the son of John Hyde and his wife Mary. He was their eldest son, and I am convinced that he got the name Wilson because it was his mother’s maiden name.
And now, we finally come to the point of all this: I have wondered about the significance of names that James Hyde & Agnes Clark gave to their children: Jean Mackenzie and Helen Rennie for example. While we know that people routinely named their children after close relatives, I still don’t know where the names ‘Mackenzie’ and ‘Rennie’ originated from. Butamed their second daughter Mary Wilson Hyde (1846-1851). I think it is reasonable to conclude that she was named after John Hyde’s wife*.
Even though this is a strong indicator of a connection between the families of John Hyde, Helen Hyde, and our James, none of it demonstrates definitively what the connection is. Until the right documentation is discovered, the relationships remain to be determined.
* I have a correspondent in Scotland (who I connected with through Ancestry.ca) whose Great grandmother, Massachusetts ry Wilson, was married to a John Hyde in Glasgow. Her understanding of their family (children, names, dates etc.) is very consistent with mine. Still, though, there is no documentary evidence to connect them directly to our James Hyde.
What follows is a list of ancestors of Richard and Rachel Hyde – – whose children may have included our James:
HYDE FAMILY REGISTER (SCOTLAND)
Richard Hyde (1785- ~1840) Born in Scotland. Married Rachel Hyde (apparently her maiden name) in Barony, Lanarkshire on June 7, 1807. Died sometime before 1841.
Rachel Hyde (1787-1868) Born in Ireland ~1787. Died at 17 George Street
John Hyde (1808- )
Helen Hyde (1810- )
Rachel Hyde (1821- )
Mary Hyde (1829- )
James Hyde?? (1814-1861) Our speculation is that James was born into this family.
John Hyde (1808- ) Son of Richard & Rachel; born in Glasgow, Scotland
Mary Wilson (1818- ) Born in Cupar, Fifeshire, Scotland.
Mary Wade Hyde
James Wilson Hyde
Robert M. Hyde
Rachel M. Hyde
Melville Hyde
William W. Hyde
John J.B. Hyde
Helen Hyde (1810- ) Daughter of Richard & Rachel; born in Glasgow, Scotland
William Henry McLean Christie (1810- ) Born in Barrhead, Renfrewshire, Scotland.
John Hyde Christie
Rachel Christie
William Christie
Frederick Christie
Rachel Hyde (1821- ) Daughter of Richard & Rachel; born in Glasgow, Scotttland.
Mary Hyde (1829- ) Daughter of Richard & Rachel; born in Glasgow, Scotland.
Mary Wade Hyde (1840- ) Daughter of John Hyde & Mary Wilson; born in Paisley, Glasgow, Scotland.
Walter James Dalgleish (1841-1907) Johnstone, Dumfrieshire, Scotland. Died in Essex, England on Sept. 17, 1907.
Mary Hyde Dalgleish
John J. Dalgleish
Elizabeth Nicol Dalgleish
Walter Edward Dalgleish
William Service Dalgleish
James Wilson Hyde (1841- ) Son of John Hyde & Mary Wilson; born in Glasgow, Scotland. He had a long career in the Post Office, eventually becaming Controller of the Edinburgh General Post Office. He was also the author of several books about the history of the Royal Mail, including: “The Royal Mail, it’s Curiosities & Romance” and “A Hundred Years by Post“.
Joanna Stuart (1853- )
Martha Helena Eveline Hyde
Robert M. Hyde (1843- ) Son of John Hyde & Mary Wilson; born in Glasgow
Rachel N. Hyde (1845- ) Daughter of John Hyde & Mary Wilson; born in Glasgow, Scotland
Melville Hyde (1852-1937) Daughter of John Hyde & Mary Wilson; born in Glasgow, Scotland
William Larmour Service (1856-1931)
Robert Larmour Service
William Dudley Service
Juanita Melville Service
Daisy Service
Olive Muriel Service
Eleanor Service
Thomas Bernard Service
Clarence Hyde Service
William W. Hyde (1854- ) Son of John Hyde & Mary Wilson; born in Glasgow, Scotland
John G.B. Hyde (1859- ) Son of John Hyde & Mary Wilson; born in Glasgow
John Hyde Christie (1836-1926) Son of Helen Hyde & William Henry McLean Christie; born in Glasgow, Scotland
Jessie Fulton (1842-1924) Born in Kibarchan, Renfrewshire, Scotland .
Henry William Christie
Jane Park Christie
John Fulton Christie
George James Hyde Christie
Helen Hyde Christie
Rachel Christie (1839- ) Daughter of Helen Hyde & William Henry McLean Christie; born in
William Christie (1843-) Son of Helen Hyde & William Henry McLean Christie; born in
Frederick Christie (1850- ~1860) Son of Helen Hyde & William Henry McLean Christie; born in
Mary Hyde Dalgleish (1868- ) Daughter of Mary Wade Hyde & Walter James Dalgleish.
Henry Charles Sawyer (1870- )
Doris Mary Sawyer
Charles W. Sawyer
Elizabeth Winifred Sawyer
John J. Dalgleish (1870-1955) Son of Mary Wade Hyde & Walter James Dalgleish.
Elizabeth Nicol Dalgleish (1872-1940) Daughter of Mary Wade Hyde & Walter James Dalgleish.
William Sydney Smith (1871- )
Marjorie Blanche Smith
Walter Edward Dalgleish (1875-1938) Son of Mary Wade Hyde & Walter James Dalgleish.
Blanche Ethel Martin (1875-1931)
Ronald James Edward Dalgleish
Stella Mary Elizabeth Dalgleish
Violet Wagg (1894-1957)
William Service Dalgleish (1879-1918) Son of Mary Wade Hyde & Walter James Dalgleish.
Martha Helena Eveline Hyde (1878- ) Daughter of James Wilson Hyde & Joanna Stuart.
Robert Larmour Service (1878- ) Son of Melville Hyde & William Larmour Service.
Elizabeth Harriet Stokes ()
William Larmour Hyde Service
William Dudley Service (1883- ) Son of Melville Hyde & William Larmour Service.
Juanita Melville Service (1885-1956) Daughter of Melville Hyde & William Larmour Service.
Olive Muriel Service (1887-1967) Daughter of Melville Hyde & William Larmour Service.
Frederick William Chele (1866- )
Daisy Service (1887- ) Daughter of Melville Hyde & William Larmour Service.
Thomas Bernard Service (1889- ) Son of Melville Hyde & William Larmour Service.
Eleanor Service (1889- ) Daughter of Melville Hyde & William Larmour Service.
Clarence Hyde Service (1891- ) Son of Melville Hyde & William Larmour Service.
Henry William Christie (1873- ) Son John Hyde Christie & Jessie Fulton
Jane Park Christie (1874- ) Daughter John Hyde Christie & Jessie Fulton
John Fulton Christie (1877-1959) Son John Hyde Christie & Jessie Fulton
Jessie Christina MacDonald (1893-1972)
Iain Colin Christie
George James Hyde Christie (1879- ) Son John Hyde Christie & Jessie Fulton
Helen Hyde Christie (1883- ) Daughter John Hyde Christie & Jessie Fulton
Doris Mary Sawyer (1895- )
Charles W. Sawyer (1897- )
Elizabeth Winifred Sawyer (1900- )
Marjorie Blanche Smith (1906-1981)
Edwin Azariah Ferraro Vine (1906-1951)
Ronald James Edward Dalgleish (1902- ) Son of Walter Edward Dalgleish & Blanche Ethel Martin.
Elizabeth Clapham (1913-1986)
Ronald J. Dalgleish
Daphne Dorothy Dalgleish
Stella Mary Elizabeth Dalgleish (1908-1997) Daughter of Walter Edward Dalgleish & Blanche Ethel Martin.
William Larmour Hyde Service (1900-1989) Son of Robert Larmour Service & Elizabeth Harriet Stokes.
Iain Colin Christie (1930-1991) Son of John Fulton Christie & Jessie Christina MacDonald
Ronald J. Dalgleish (1932-2004) Son of Ronald James Dalgleish & Elizabeth Clapham.
Daphne Dorothy Dalgleish (1938-1978) Daughter of Ronald James Dalgleish & Elizabeth Clapham.
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One thought on “Hyde Family in Scotland”
christine Elshaw
August 2, 2015 at 7:52 am
hi, my grandfather was john james dalgliesh, son of walter james and mary wade dalgliesh. he married a Florence ethel read who had one son, named walter james dalgliesh, my father. please note the spelling of dalgliesh. my dad insists it is ie not ei, there was also no mention of Arthur William born 1878 or deseased child named Melville Beatrice who was only a baby. I love all our family history that you have wrien. so this makes us related in some way. would love to hear from you. Christine Elshaw nee dalgliesh
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1785 - 1835 (50 years)
